NetBSD Problem Report #40641
From www@NetBSD.org Sat Feb 14 12:40:22 2009
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:40:21 +0000 (UTC)
From: ben@wongs.net
Reply-To: ben@wongs.net
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Subject: Serial port docs show pinout backwards
X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0
>Number: 40641
>Category: misc
>Synopsis: Serial port docs show pinout backwards
>Confidential: no
>Severity: non-critical
>Priority: low
>Responsible: misc-bug-people
>State: closed
>Class: doc-bug
>Submitter-Id: net
>Arrival-Date: Sat Feb 14 12:45:00 +0000 2009
>Closed-Date: Sun May 28 18:56:47 +0000 2023
>Last-Modified: Tue May 30 15:45:01 +0000 2023
>Originator: Ben Wong
>Release: Not applicable
>Organization:
>Environment:
>Description:
The following page has a typographical error:
Title Hardware Documentation: NetBSD Serial Port Primer
Current URL http://www.netbsd.org/docs/Hardware/Misc/serial.html
The pinouts for the MiniDIN8 (male) are mirrored. The correct pinout is documented here:
http://support.apple.com/TA27966
It should look like this:
6 7 8
3 4 5
1 2
>How-To-Repeat:
>Fix:
Simply reverse the ASCII diagram, as shown above.
>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed
State-Changed-By: andvar@NetBSD.org
State-Changed-When: Sun, 28 May 2023 18:56:47 +0000
State-Changed-Why:
www pinout seems to be correct, though internet resources are a bit confusing.
support page from the PR is not available anymore, but
http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/conns/connSerial.html#Mac mentions
that some apple docs could have had reversed pinout.
closing without changes for now.
From: Ben Wong <ben@wongs.net>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc: misc-bug-people@netbsd.org, netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org,
andvar@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: misc/40641 (Serial port docs show pinout backwards)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 15:37:28 -0700
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It has been a long time since I opened this bug, but I am pretty sure that
I opened this bug because the cable I made from the NetBSD docs was
incorrect.
Apple moved their web page. Please refer instead to
https://support.apple.com/kb/TA27966. Here is what it says:
Macintosh: Mini DIN-8 to DB-9 Adapter Pinouts (10/94)
This adapter cable is used to connect DB-9 cables to devices with Mini
DIN-8 ports (such as on the Macintosh Plus or newer).
Circular 8 Signal DB-9
1 HSKo (+12V) 6
2 HSKi 7
3 TXD- 5
4 GND 3,1*
5 RXD- 9
6 TXD+ 4
7 No Wire
8 RXD+ 8
* Pins 1 and 3 on the DB-9 end are jumpered together.
The pins on the male end of the circular 8 connector are numbered as shown:
6 7 8
3 4 5
1 2
NOTE: The Macintosh Plus peripheral adapter cable is stamped with the
number 590-0341; when reordering, however, be sure to use the cable's
service part number, which is 699-0430 (older cables may be referred
to as 699-0372).
Article Change History:
12 Oct 1994 - Reviewed for technical accuracy.
Support Information Services
Note that this pin numbering matches what one would expect for DIN-8
male so is unlikely to be backwards.
--Ben
On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 11:56=E2=80=AFAM <andvar@netbsd.org> wrote:
> Synopsis: Serial port docs show pinout backwards
>
> State-Changed-From-To: open->closed
> State-Changed-By: andvar@NetBSD.org
> State-Changed-When: Sun, 28 May 2023 18:56:47 +0000
> State-Changed-Why:
> www pinout seems to be correct, though internet resources are a bit
> confusing.
> support page from the PR is not available anymore, but
> http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/conns/connSerial.html#Mac
> mentions
> that some apple docs could have had reversed pinout.
> closing without changes for now.
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:garamond,times new roman,serif">It has been a long time since I op=
ened this bug, but I am pretty sure that I opened this bug because the cabl=
e I made from the NetBSD docs was incorrect. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:garamond,times new roman,ser=
if">Apple moved their web page. Please refer instead to <a href=3D"https://=
support.apple.com/kb/TA27966">https://support.apple.com/kb/TA27966</a>. Her=
e is what it says:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:g=
aramond,times new roman,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><pre id=3D"gmail-line1"><sp=
an>Macintosh: Mini DIN-8 to DB-9 Adapter Pinouts (10/94)<br><br>This adapte=
r cable is used to connect DB-9 cables to devices with Mini<br>DIN-8 ports =
(such as on the Macintosh Plus or newer).<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <br>Circu=
lar 8 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Signal =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0DB-9<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 HSKo (+12=
V) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 6<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 HSKi =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A07<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TXD- =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A05<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 4 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GND =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3,1*<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 5 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RXD- =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A09<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 6 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TXD+ =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A04<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 7 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 No Wire<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 8 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RXD+ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08<br>=C2=A0<br>* Pins 1 and 3 on the DB-9 end are j=
umpered together.<br>=C2=A0<br>The pins on the male end of the circular 8 c=
onnector are numbered as shown:<br>=C2=A0<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 6 7 8<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03 4 =C2=A0 5<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01 2<br>=C2=A0<br>NOTE: The Macintosh Plus=
peripheral adapter cable is stamped with the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 numbe=
r 590-0341; when reordering, however, be sure to use the cable's<br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 service part number, which is 699-0430 (older cables may =
be referred<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to as 699-0372).<br><br>Article Change =
History:<br>12 Oct 1994 - Reviewed for technical accuracy. <br><br>Support =
Information Services<br><br></span></pre><pre id=3D"gmail-line1"><span><fon=
t face=3D"garamond,times new roman,serif">Note that this pin numbering matc=
hes what one would expect for DIN-8 male so is unlikely to be backwards.<br=
><br></font></span></pre><pre id=3D"gmail-line1"><span><font face=3D"garamo=
nd,times new roman,serif">--Ben<br></font></span></pre></div></div><br><div=
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, May 28=
, 2023 at 11:56=E2=80=AFAM <<a href=3D"mailto:andvar@netbsd.org">andvar@=
netbsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">Synopsis: Serial port docs show pinout backwards<br>
<br>
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed<br>
State-Changed-By: andvar@NetBSD.org<br>
State-Changed-When: Sun, 28 May 2023 18:56:47 +0000<br>
State-Changed-Why:<br>
www pinout seems to be correct, though internet resources are a bit confusi=
ng.<br>
support page from the PR is not available anymore, but<br>
<a href=3D"http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/conns/connSerial.htm=
l#Mac" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Wor=
kshop/advice/conns/connSerial.html#Mac</a> mentions<br>
that some apple docs could have had reversed pinout.<br>
closing without changes for now.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
--00000000000001f61605fcdcbc6d--
From: Martin Husemann <martin@duskware.de>
To: Ben Wong <ben@wongs.net>
Cc: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: misc/40641 (Serial port docs show pinout backwards)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 12:10:05 +0200
On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 03:37:28PM -0700, Ben Wong wrote:
> Circular 8 Signal DB-9
> 1 HSKo (+12V) 6
> 2 HSKi 7
> 3 TXD- 5
> 4 GND 3,1*
> 5 RXD- 9
> 6 TXD+ 4
> 7 No Wire
> 8 RXD+ 8
>
> * Pins 1 and 3 on the DB-9 end are jumpered together.
>
> The pins on the male end of the circular 8 connector are numbered as shown:
>
> 6 7 8
> 3 4 5
> 1 2
I just checked my working powermac G5 console cable and I can confirm
that looking from the outside onto the pins of the male 8 pin connector
it looks exactly like in the NetBSD documentation page:
8 7 6
5 4 3
2 1
and I think the Apple shema shows the pins on the inside of the connector
(the soldering side). I also confirmed that pin 4 of the cirular 8 pin
jack is connected to GND at pin 5 of the DB9.
Since this connector is asymetric the numbering is pretty clear (while
the DB9 side is harder to get right, but there are typicaly numbers on
the soldering side).
The numbering for the male DB25 and DB9 connectors on the NetBSD page
are from the same point of view, i.e. if you solder a male DB25 and have
it lying on a desk before you with the shorter row pointing towards you,
pin 25 is in the lower left corner, while pin 1 is on the upper right edge -
but the image on the NetBSD page shows the view onto the connector when
the cable is finished (and you can't see the soldering side).
So maybe the page should get a additional hint to clarify the direction
we are looking at the pins, but otherwise it seems to be correct to me.
Martin
From: Ben Wong <ben@wongs.net>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc: misc-bug-people@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org, netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: misc/40641 (Serial port docs show pinout backwards)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 08:40:06 -0700
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Martin! I'll accept reality over Apple's documentation any day.
=E2=80=94Ben
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 3:15=E2=80=AFAM Martin Husemann <martin@duskware.de=
> wrote:
> The following reply was made to PR misc/40641; it has been noted by GNATS=
.
>
> From: Martin Husemann <martin@duskware.de>
> To: Ben Wong <ben@wongs.net>
> Cc: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
> Subject: Re: misc/40641 (Serial port docs show pinout backwards)
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 12:10:05 +0200
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 03:37:28PM -0700, Ben Wong wrote:
>
> > Circular 8 Signal DB-9
> > 1 HSKo (+12V) 6
> > 2 HSKi 7
> > 3 TXD- 5
> > 4 GND 3,1*
> > 5 RXD- 9
> > 6 TXD+ 4
> > 7 No Wire
> > 8 RXD+ 8
> >
> > * Pins 1 and 3 on the DB-9 end are jumpered together.
> >
> > The pins on the male end of the circular 8 connector are numbered as
> shown:
> >
> > 6 7 8
> > 3 4 5
> > 1 2
>
> I just checked my working powermac G5 console cable and I can confirm
> that looking from the outside onto the pins of the male 8 pin connector
> it looks exactly like in the NetBSD documentation page:
>
> 8 7 6
> 5 4 3
> 2 1
>
> and I think the Apple shema shows the pins on the inside of the connecto=
r
> (the soldering side). I also confirmed that pin 4 of the cirular 8 pin
> jack is connected to GND at pin 5 of the DB9.
>
> Since this connector is asymetric the numbering is pretty clear (while
> the DB9 side is harder to get right, but there are typicaly numbers on
> the soldering side).
>
> The numbering for the male DB25 and DB9 connectors on the NetBSD page
> are from the same point of view, i.e. if you solder a male DB25 and have
> it lying on a desk before you with the shorter row pointing towards you,
> pin 25 is in the lower left corner, while pin 1 is on the upper right
> edge -
> but the image on the NetBSD page shows the view onto the connector when
> the cable is finished (and you can't see the soldering side).
>
> So maybe the page should get a additional hint to clarify the direction
> we are looking at the pins, but otherwise it seems to be correct to me.
>
> Martin
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:garamond=
,times new roman,serif">Thanks, Martin! I'll accept reality over Apple&=
#39;s documentation any day.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif">=E2=80=94Ben<br><=
/div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 3:15=E2=80=AFAM Martin Husemann <<a href=3D=
"mailto:martin@duskware.de">martin@duskware.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The following reply was made =
to PR misc/40641; it has been noted by GNATS.<br>
<br>
From: Martin Husemann <<a href=3D"mailto:martin@duskware.de" target=3D"_=
blank">martin@duskware.de</a>><br>
To: Ben Wong <<a href=3D"mailto:ben@wongs.net" target=3D"_blank">ben@won=
gs.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:gnats-bugs@netbsd.org" target=3D"_blank">gnats-bugs@n=
etbsd.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: misc/40641 (Serial port docs show pinout backwards)<br>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 12:10:05 +0200<br>
<br>
=C2=A0On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 03:37:28PM -0700, Ben Wong wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0> Circular 8=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Signal=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DB-9<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0HSK=
o (+12V)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A06<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0HSK=
i=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 7<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0TXD=
-=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A04=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0GND=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03,1*<b=
r>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A05=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RXD=
-=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A06=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0TXD=
+=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A07=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0No =
Wire<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RXD=
+=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 8<br>
=C2=A0> <br>
=C2=A0> * Pins 1 and 3 on the DB-9 end are jumpered together.<br>
=C2=A0> <br>
=C2=A0> The pins on the male end of the circular 8 connector are numbere=
d as shown:<br>
=C2=A0> <br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A06 7 8<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3 4=C2=A0 =C2=A05<br>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0I just checked my working powermac G5 console cable and I can confirm=
<br>
=C2=A0that looking from the outside onto the pins of the male 8 pin connect=
or<br>
=C2=A0it looks exactly like in the NetBSD documentation page:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 8 7 6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A05=C2=A0 =C2=A04 3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02 1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0and I think the Apple shema shows the pins on the inside of the conne=
ctor<br>
=C2=A0(the soldering side). I also confirmed that pin 4 of the cirular 8 pi=
n<br>
=C2=A0jack is connected to GND at pin 5 of the DB9.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0Since this connector is asymetric the numbering is pretty clear (whil=
e<br>
=C2=A0the DB9 side is harder to get right, but there are typicaly numbers o=
n<br>
=C2=A0the soldering side).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0The numbering for the male DB25 and DB9 connectors on the NetBSD page=
<br>
=C2=A0are from the same point of view, i.e. if you solder a male DB25 and h=
ave<br>
=C2=A0it lying on a desk before you with the shorter row pointing towards y=
ou,<br>
=C2=A0pin 25 is in the lower left corner, while pin 1 is on the upper right=
edge -<br>
=C2=A0but the image on the NetBSD page shows the view onto the connector wh=
en<br>
=C2=A0the cable is finished (and you can't see the soldering side).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0So maybe the page should get a additional hint to clarify the directi=
on<br>
=C2=A0we are looking at the pins, but otherwise it seems to be correct to m=
e.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0Martin<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
--000000000000453ca305fceb0553--
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