NetBSD Problem Report #47200

From Ephaeton@gmx.net  Fri Nov 16 14:50:19 2012
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Message-Id: <20121116145012.F3B4513662@agamemnon.entropie.local>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:50:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Ephaeton@gmx.net
Reply-To: Ephaeton@gmx.net
To: gnats-bugs@gnats.NetBSD.org
Subject: Sorry state of xen in NetBSD
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>Number:         47200
>Category:       port-xen
>Synopsis:       Sorry state of xen in NetBSD
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       high
>Responsible:    port-xen-maintainer
>State:          closed
>Class:          sw-bug
>Submitter-Id:   net
>Arrival-Date:   Fri Nov 16 14:55:01 +0000 2012
>Closed-Date:    Sat Nov 17 02:15:55 +0000 2012
>Last-Modified:  Sat Nov 17 02:15:55 +0000 2012
>Originator:     Martin S. Weber
>Release:        NetBSD 6.0_STABLE / pkgsrc-2012Q3
>Organization:

>Environment:


System: NetBSD agamemnon.entropie.local 6.0_STABLE NetBSD 6.0_STABLE (GENERIC) #0: Mon Nov 12 20:11:14 EST 2012 root@agamemnon.entropie.local:/space/obj/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC amd64
Architecture: x86_64
Machine: amd64
>Description:
The xen packages / port is in a very sorry state, release engineering wise.
Given the (lack of) depth and state of its documentation, you might as well 
think this is GNU software.

- the port's homepage last two progress items were 2009 and 2012. Really?
- the xen howto is so far out of date that it hurts just reading. 
  Xentools20? Fabolous.
- xen defines two competing interfaces, one supposedly ready to deprecate the
  other (xm, xl). xm has a manpage. xl doesn't. xm has manpages for its config
  file, and the per-domain config files. xl uses config files similarly. xm's
  config files have manpages; xl's don't.
- xl actually tries to use some very non-netbsd'ish paths (/usr/lib/var/xl...?)
- there is no single, simple step-by-step guide by netbsd that actually produces
  working results.
- the current NetBSD documentation doesn't explain NetBSD specifics at all.
- NetBSD shouldn't rely on any bit of information from the xen homepage, as
  the chaos over there is even worse than what NetBSD presents under port-xen

and then, it doesn't even work?

- it might actually reboot your hardware (it does this for me at times)
- it might give your dom0 1 CPU no matter how many you've asked for
- it can't properly communicate with itself (can't find console: ENOENT)
- its scripts are out of date?? (e.g. xen/scripts/vif-bridge checks its
  state argument for 2 and 6 but actually gets called with 1 and 5)

How about some of the NetBSD/port-xen wizards just writes a step-by-step,
no-extra-comments, this-is-what-works guide (i.e. shell-script style) and
lets this get under the scrutiny of reality?

>How-To-Repeat:
Try to install a linux domU under NetBSD-6.0_STABLE/amd64 dom0 with
xen 4.1.3 from pkgsrc-2012Q3 without a Ph.D. in xenism. Fail. Pull hair 
over documentation. Walk away or write PR.

>Fix:

	Xen wizards actually share their working setup scripts and configurations.

>Release-Note:

>Audit-Trail:
From: jnemeth@victoria.tc.ca (John Nemeth)
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org, port-xen-maintainer@NetBSD.org,
        gnats-admin@NetBSD.org, netbsd-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: port-xen/47200: Sorry state of xen in NetBSD
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:14:27 -0800

 On Mar 4,  3:02am, Ephaeton@gmx.net wrote:
 } >Number:         47200
 } >Category:       port-xen
 } >Synopsis:       Sorry state of xen in NetBSD
 } >Responsible:    port-xen-maintainer
 } >State:          open
 } >Arrival-Date:   Fri Nov 16 14:55:01 +0000 2012
 } >Originator:     Martin S. Weber
 } >Release:        NetBSD 6.0_STABLE / pkgsrc-2012Q3
 } >Environment:
 } 	
 } System: NetBSD agamemnon.entropie.local 6.0_STABLE NetBSD 6.0_STABLE (GENERIC) #0: Mon Nov 12 20:11:14 EST 2012 root@agamemnon.entropie.local:/space/obj/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC amd64
 } Architecture: x86_64
 } Machine: amd64
 } >Description:
 } The xen packages / port is in a very sorry state, release engineering wise.
 } Given the (lack of) depth and state of its documentation, you might as well 
 } think this is GNU software.

      This is rather inflamatory.  If you want people to pay attention,
 you might want to tone it down a bit.

 } - the port's homepage last two progress items were 2009 and 2012. Really?
 } - the xen howto is so far out of date that it hurts just reading. 
 }   Xentools20? Fabolous.
 } - xen defines two competing interfaces, one supposedly ready to deprecate the
 }   other (xm, xl). xm has a manpage. xl doesn't. xm has manpages for its config
 }   file, and the per-domain config files. xl uses config files similarly. xm's
 }   config files have manpages; xl's don't.

      xentools is third party software.  NetBSD isn't responsible for the
 quality of documention supplied with third party software.

 } - xl actually tries to use some very non-netbsd'ish paths (/usr/lib/var/xl...?)
      This is a known issue, and is being worked on.  It should be much
 better with xentools42.

 } - there is no single, simple step-by-step guide by netbsd that actually produces
 }   working results.
 } - the current NetBSD documentation doesn't explain NetBSD specifics at all.

      There aren't a lot.  Anyways, I didn't have any trouble setting up
 Xen using NetBSD documentation.  However, I do agree that the Howto
 needs work.  There is another PR for it.

 } - NetBSD shouldn't rely on any bit of information from the xen homepage, as
 }   the chaos over there is even worse than what NetBSD presents under port-xen
 } 
 } and then, it doesn't even work?

      Yes it does.  Xen is used with a number of NetBSD project servers,
 and is used heavily in production by a number of developers.

 } - it might actually reboot your hardware (it does this for me at times)

      This statement provides absolutely no useful information
 whatsoever.

 } - it might give your dom0 1 CPU no matter how many you've asked for

      NetBSD dom0 isn't SMP capable.

 } - it can't properly communicate with itself (can't find console: ENOENT)

      User error.

 } - its scripts are out of date?? (e.g. xen/scripts/vif-bridge checks its
 }   state argument for 2 and 6 but actually gets called with 1 and 5)
 } 
 } How about some of the NetBSD/port-xen wizards just writes a step-by-step,
 } no-extra-comments, this-is-what-works guide (i.e. shell-script style) and
 } lets this get under the scrutiny of reality?
 } 	
 } >How-To-Repeat:
 } Try to install a linux domU under NetBSD-6.0_STABLE/amd64 dom0 with
 } xen 4.1.3 from pkgsrc-2012Q3 without a Ph.D. in xenism. Fail. Pull hair 
 } over documentation. Walk away or write PR.

      I managed to install a linux domU under a NetBSD dom0, and I don't
 have a Ph.D.  It really isn't that difficult.

 } >Fix:
 } 	
 } 	Xen wizards actually share their working setup scripts and configurations.
 } 
 }-- End of excerpt from Ephaeton@gmx.net

State-Changed-From-To: open->closed
State-Changed-By: jnemeth@NetBSD.org
State-Changed-When: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:15:55 +0000
State-Changed-Why:
Duplicate of 47157.


>Unformatted:

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