NetBSD Problem Report #4789

Received: (qmail 5264 invoked from network); 7 Jan 1998 16:51:16 -0000
Message-Id: <199801071646.RAA00882@cosinus.cs.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:46:27 +0100 (CET)
From: Ignatios Souvatzis <ignatios@cosinus.cs.uni-bonn.de>
Reply-To: is@netbsd.org
To: gnats-bugs@gnats.netbsd.org, frank@wins.uva.nl
Subject: new installation system (sysinst) shortcomings
X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.95

>Number:         4789
>Category:       install
>Synopsis:       sysinst shortcomings
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       non-critical
>Priority:       medium
>Responsible:    install-manager
>State:          closed
>Class:          change-request
>Submitter-Id:   net
>Arrival-Date:   Wed Jan 07 09:05:00 +0000 1998
>Closed-Date:    Thu Aug 14 13:44:34 +0000 2008
>Last-Modified:  Tue Aug 19 10:30:02 +0000 2008
>Originator:     Ignatios Souvatzis
>Release:        1.3
>Organization:
computer science department, university of Bonn, Germany
>Environment:

System: NetBSD cosinus.cs.uni-bonn.de 1.3 NetBSD 1.3 (GENERIC) #0: Tue Dec 30 18:26:29 EST 1997 perry@jekyll.piermont.com:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC i386


>Description:
1. navigating in nfs-mounted dirs or on remote ftp directories isn't provided.
   [I suspect, but couldn't test, also navigating on e.g. CD-ROMs.]

2. installing by ftp, as-is, requires LOTS of local disk space. I suggest
   adding installing-by-ftp-unpacking-on-the-fly.

3. Installing X distribs is not really supported (and if it was, some special
   code to select just one, or a few, X servers from the xserver.tgz should
   be provided).

4. i386 special (I guess):
   The compressed install-kernel-with-embedded-install-filesystem should also
   be provided by itself (without the floppy disk image wrapper) so that we
   could just copy it to /, reboot selecting the different name, and upgrade.
   _Having_ to write a floppy, (or, worse for most people: mounting the floppy
   image via the vnd device) isn't very convenient, if you already have a 
   real OS running.

5. i386 special:
   The installation procedure should be able to ask the user for a keyboard
   layout specification, and use it (both itself and the later installed 
   system, at least in text console mode).

>How-To-Repeat:
	Install NetBSD-1.3 on a Pentium machine with german layout keyboard.
>Fix:
Hm. "use the generic miniroot as NetBSD/Amiga.. which has most of the above
implemented." :-)
>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
To: ignatios@cosinus.cs.uni-bonn.de
Cc: gnats-bugs@gnats.netbsd.org, frank@wins.uva.nl
Subject: Re: misc/4789: new installation system (sysinst) shortcomings 
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:26:42 -0500

 Ignatios Souvatzis writes:
 > 2. installing by ftp, as-is, requires LOTS of local disk space. I suggest
 >    adding installing-by-ftp-unpacking-on-the-fly.

 Unpacking on the fly can be very dangerous, though. You can't even
 manage to checksum what you've downloaded, and if you die partway
 though you are screwed. It probably should be an option.

 > 4. i386 special (I guess):
 >    The compressed install-kernel-with-embedded-install-filesystem should also
 >    be provided by itself (without the floppy disk image wrapper) so that we
 >    could just copy it to /, reboot selecting the different name, and upgrade.
 >    _Having_ to write a floppy, (or, worse for most people: mounting the floppy
 >    image via the vnd device) isn't very convenient, if you already have a 
 >    real OS running.

 I don't understand. The kernel on the floppy should NEVER be copied by
 the user in ordinary circumstances.

 Perry

Responsible-Changed-From-To: misc-bug-people->bin-bug-people
Responsible-Changed-By: jonathan
Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Feb 23 16:17:04 1998
Responsible-Changed-Why:

Refiled to `bin' which is where all the other non-i386-specific
sysinst PRs were submitted.  I think install tools belong in a
category of their own, so the right people get notified.

State-Changed-From-To: open->analyzed
State-Changed-By: jonathan
State-Changed-When: Mon Feb 23 16:19:28 1998
State-Changed-Why:

Responsible-Changed-From-To: bin-bug-people->gnats-admin 
Responsible-Changed-By: jonathan 
Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Nov 16 00:08:46 PST 1998 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
refiled to "install" category. 
Responsible-Changed-From-To: gnats-admin->install-manager 
Responsible-Changed-By: fair 
Responsible-Changed-When: Thu Jun 17 13:53:16 PDT 1999 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
This PR is the responsibility of the NetBSD install bug manager, 
not the GNATS database administrator. 

From: "Charles M. Hannum" <abuse@spamalicious.com>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: install/4789
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 07:20:55 +0000

 #3 was resolved a long time ago by adding X installation, and by the unified 
 server in XF86 4.

 #4 was resolved a long time ago by changes I made to the build process to copy 
 the ramdisk kernels to .../binary/kernel.
From: David Holland <dholland-bugs@netbsd.org>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: install/4789: sysinst shortcomings
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 21:59:31 +0000

 The issue with 4. is that if one has the kernel, sometimes one can
 boot it some way other than from the formal install media (e.g.,
 netboot, boot via MSDOS, doing unclean things with boot sectors, etc.)
 and it's helpful to be able to do this conveniently. For i386 at least
 you can get the INSTALL kernel, but not the ramdisk image (either
 itself or wedged into the kernel) unless you build it yourself; also
 the mechanism for doing so (at least, without doing a complete
 release) is obscure.

 5. was taken care of some time ago.

 -- 
 David A. Holland
 dholland@netbsd.org

From: Martin Husemann <martin@duskware.de>
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: install/4789: sysinst shortcomings
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:53:48 +0200

 It seems that there is no consensus we want (2). (3) - (5) are solved
 nowadays. This leaves us with (1) - browsing for the install sets, which
 would be easy for cd/disk/nfs and a bit more involved for ftp.

 Martin

From: Ignatios Souvatzis <ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de>
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: install/4789: sysinst shortcomings
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:37:01 +0200

 On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:55:02PM +0000, Martin Husemann wrote:

 >  It seems that there is no consensus we want (2). (3) - (5) are solved
 >  nowadays. This leaves us with (1) - browsing for the install sets, which
 >  would be easy for cd/disk/nfs and a bit more involved for ftp.

 (2) is No Longer Any Problem as the sets are fetched and installed one-by-one,
 and deleted afterwards (if not instructed to keep them).

 I'll create a new PR about (1). This PR can be closed after that.

         -is

State-Changed-From-To: analyzed->closed
State-Changed-By: is@NetBSD.org
State-Changed-When: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:44:34 +0000
State-Changed-Why:
Remaining item refiled as install/39352 .


From: Ignatios Souvatzis <is@netbsd.org>
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: install/4789: sysinst shortcomings
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:12:03 +0200

 On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:55:02PM +0000, Martin Husemann wrote:

 >  It seems that there is no consensus we want (2). (3) - (5) are solved
 >  nowadays. This leaves us with (1) - browsing for the install sets, which
 >  would be easy for cd/disk/nfs and a bit more involved for ftp.

 (2) is No Longer Any Problem as the sets are fetched and installed one-by-one,
 and deleted afterwards (if not instructed to keep them).

 I'll create a new PR about (1). This PR can be closed after that.

 	-is

>Unformatted:
 >1. navigating in nfs-mounted dirs or on remote ftp directories isn't provided.
 >   [I suspect, but couldn't test, also navigating on e.g. CD-ROMs.]

 1. is a reasonable suggestion. What kind of UI do you want for
 `navigation?'  The menu system used by sysinst cannot yet build
 dynamic canvases -- we cant get a directory listing and show it to you.
 because the menu system doesnt grok it.  

 >2.

 Dangerous, as noted.  I agree it souhld be an option. Do you really
 mean pipin the output of FTP into an tar --unlink -xpzf --, or is to
 OK to spool one .tgz file on disk?  Right now FTP doest support
 piping.  Which did you want?  Please let me know and I'll add it to
 the sysinst TODO list.

 >3.  [i386 doesnt install X11 sets]

 Actually, this is i386-specific too.  pmax installs X11 sets happily.
 I just updated the i386 menus to do this, copying the pmax and alpha code.
 Closed.

 >4. [asks for i386 install media kernel to be available separately[

 I dont understand either.  On pmax, the install-media kernel is
 avilable anyway, but 

 >5.  [ I18n on i386: NLS keyboard setups ]

 Well, I guess it should, if the foreign keyboards actually fit in the
 install media. I dont think they do.  More generally, sysinst is
 available with French text; if you were to translate the menus, we
 would have it in German, too.

 I propose to note 1. and 2. and maybe 5. in the sysinst TODO files,
 referencing this PR, and to then change the category to  port-i386,
 as 4. and 5. are, I think, i836-specific. Does that sound okay?

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