NetBSD Problem Report #52389

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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:25:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: bsiegert@gmail.com
Reply-To: bsiegert@gmail.com
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Subject: NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0

>Number:         52389
>Category:       port-xen
>Synopsis:       NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       medium
>Responsible:    port-xen-maintainer
>State:          open
>Class:          change-request
>Submitter-Id:   net
>Arrival-Date:   Mon Jul 10 11:30:00 +0000 2017
>Last-Modified:  Wed Jul 19 18:20:00 +0000 2017
>Originator:     Benny Siegert
>Release:        
>Organization:
The NetBSD Foundation
>Environment:
>Description:
From Colin Percival on port-xen@:

I noticed a few days ago that the EC2 images you provide
  https://wiki.netbsd.org/amazon_ec2/amis/
and the build instructions
  https://wiki.netbsd.org/amazon_ec2/build_your_own_ami/
are for PV mode.  As a result, those images won't run on any of the
modern EC2 instance types -- EC2 has moved to HVM (or more precisely,
HVM with paravirtual and/or SR-IOV devices).

If any of you want are interested in modernizing your EC2 offering, I'll
be happy to help; as the maintainer of the FreeBSD/EC2 platform, I've
probably tripped over many of the same issues you'll encounter.  And if
we can get a better NetBSD offering in EC2, it might help to get them to
stop classifying BSDs as "other Linux"...
>How-To-Repeat:

>Fix:

>Audit-Trail:
From: Abhinav Upadhyay <er.abhinav.upadhyay@gmail.com>
To: NetBSD GNATS <gnats-bugs@netbsd.org>
Cc: port-xen-maintainer@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org, 
	netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: port-xen/52389: NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 13:58:10 +0530

 On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 5:00 PM,  <bsiegert@gmail.com> wrote:
 >>Number:         52389
 >>Category:       port-xen
 >>Synopsis:       NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
 >>Confidential:   no
 >>Severity:       serious
 >>Priority:       medium
 >>Responsible:    port-xen-maintainer
 >>State:          open
 >>Class:          change-request
 >>Submitter-Id:   net
 >>Arrival-Date:   Mon Jul 10 11:30:00 +0000 2017
 >>Originator:     Benny Siegert
 >>Release:
 >>Organization:
 > The NetBSD Foundation
 >>Environment:
 >>Description:
 > From Colin Percival on port-xen@:
 >
 > I noticed a few days ago that the EC2 images you provide
 >   https://wiki.netbsd.org/amazon_ec2/amis/
 > and the build instructions
 >   https://wiki.netbsd.org/amazon_ec2/build_your_own_ami/
 > are for PV mode.  As a result, those images won't run on any of the
 > modern EC2 instance types -- EC2 has moved to HVM (or more precisely,
 > HVM with paravirtual and/or SR-IOV devices).
 >
 > If any of you want are interested in modernizing your EC2 offering, I'll
 > be happy to help; as the maintainer of the FreeBSD/EC2 platform, I've
 > probably tripped over many of the same issues you'll encounter.  And if
 > we can get a better NetBSD offering in EC2, it might help to get them to
 > stop classifying BSDs as "other Linux"...
 >>How-To-Repeat:

 I am interested in seeing this happen. I run a NetBSD instance in EC2
 and my cost would be cut by half if we can manage to get HVM images
 working.

 I asked Colin Percival how FreeBSD does this, he told me to simply
 build an amd64 image instead of a xen image and upload it. I tried
 doing that but could not get it to boot, because of no boot loader
 found error (I guess we still need an extra disk volume for GRUB). I
 haven't found time since then to retry with an extra volume attached
 for GRUB. Then it is also not clear if the network interfaces in HVM
 instances are named the same way as in PV.

 -
 Abhinav

From: Joerg Sonnenberger <joerg@bec.de>
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: port-xen-maintainer@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org,
	netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org, bsiegert@gmail.com
Subject: Re: port-xen/52389: NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:11:44 +0200

 On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 08:30:01AM +0000, Abhinav Upadhyay wrote:
 >  I asked Colin Percival how FreeBSD does this, he told me to simply
 >  build an amd64 image instead of a xen image and upload it.

 That doesn't make sense as there is no PV support for non-Xen kernels.

 Joerg

From: Benny Siegert <bsiegert@gmail.com>
To: Joerg Sonnenberger <joerg@bec.de>
Cc: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org,
 port-xen-maintainer@netbsd.org,
 gnats-admin@netbsd.org,
 netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: port-xen/52389: NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 15:46:45 +0200

 > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 08:30:01AM +0000, Abhinav Upadhyay wrote:
 >> I asked Colin Percival how FreeBSD does this, he told me to simply
 >> build an amd64 image instead of a xen image and upload it.
 >=20
 > That doesn't make sense as there is no PV support for non-Xen kernels.

 Is there something fundamental that prevents NetBSD from having PV =
 drivers in a non-Xen kernel? FreeBSD can do it, Linux has PV drivers by =
 default AFAIK, so why can=E2=80=99t we?

 =E2=80=94Benny.=

From: Manuel Bouyer <bouyer@antioche.eu.org>
To: Benny Siegert <bsiegert@gmail.com>
Cc: Joerg Sonnenberger <joerg@bec.de>, gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org,
        port-xen-maintainer@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org,
        netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: port-xen/52389: NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 15:51:37 +0200

 On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 03:46:45PM +0200, Benny Siegert wrote:
 > > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 08:30:01AM +0000, Abhinav Upadhyay wrote:
 > >> I asked Colin Percival how FreeBSD does this, he told me to simply
 > >> build an amd64 image instead of a xen image and upload it.
 > > 
 > > That doesn't make sense as there is no PV support for non-Xen kernels.
 > 
 > Is there something fundamental that prevents NetBSD from having PV drivers in a non-Xen kernel?

 Developper time

 -- 
 Manuel Bouyer <bouyer@antioche.eu.org>
      NetBSD: 26 ans d'experience feront toujours la difference
 --

From: christos@zoulas.com (Christos Zoulas)
To: Benny Siegert <bsiegert@gmail.com>, Joerg Sonnenberger <joerg@bec.de>
Cc: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org, port-xen-maintainer@netbsd.org, 
	gnats-admin@netbsd.org, netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: port-xen/52389: NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV drivers
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 14:18:46 -0400

 On Jul 19,  3:46pm, bsiegert@gmail.com (Benny Siegert) wrote:
 -- Subject: Re: port-xen/52389: NetBSD EC2 images should use HVM with PV driv

 | > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 08:30:01AM +0000, Abhinav Upadhyay wrote:
 | >> I asked Colin Percival how FreeBSD does this, he told me to simply
 | >> build an amd64 image instead of a xen image and upload it.
 | >=20
 | > That doesn't make sense as there is no PV support for non-Xen kernels.
 | 
 | Is there something fundamental that prevents NetBSD from having PV drivers =
 | in a non-Xen kernel? FreeBSD can do it, Linux has PV drivers by default AFA=
 | IK, so why can=E2=80=99t we?

 We need to write them :-)

 christos

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