NetBSD Problem Report #56656

From www@netbsd.org  Sun Jan 23 10:58:04 2022
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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 10:58:02 +0000 (UTC)
From: allcoms@gmail.com
Reply-To: allcoms@gmail.com
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Subject: Improve documentation for pkg_add configuration
X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0

>Number:         56656
>Category:       pkg
>Synopsis:       Improve documentation for pkg_add configuration
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       medium
>Responsible:    pkg-manager
>State:          open
>Class:          doc-bug
>Submitter-Id:   net
>Arrival-Date:   Sun Jan 23 11:00:00 +0000 2022
>Last-Modified:  Sun Jan 23 13:50:01 +0000 2022
>Originator:     Dan MacDonald
>Release:        9.2 / current
>Organization:
>Environment:
N/A
>Description:
Yesterday I tried NetBSD properly for the first time. I have installed and booted NetBSD previously to do a small test but I didn't try to set up a desktop like yesterday.

As a Linux user of 25+ years now, my first instinct after installing NetBSD was to try to update it as you would as if doing an apt/yum upgrade. I was later informed on IRC that NetBSD doesn't do interim security or bug fix releases of packages. This is kinda unrelated but its the back story and this could do well to be mentioned on:

https://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/how_to_upgrade_packages/

I think it might be worth mentioning this difference between NetBSD and most Linux distros at the top of that page as I expect I'm not the only person who has come to NetBSD with incorrect, Linux-centric expectations about package updates.

All I knew at this stage was that I needed pkgin to install packages. You will note on the above page that it goes straight in with:

"The recommended way to manage your system with binary packages is by using pkgtools/pkgin.

pkg_add pkgin"

If a user (who has configured their network device correctly) tries to run this command on a fresh install of NetBSD, pkg_add will just print an error because pkg_add requires that the user define PKG_PATH within /etc/pkg_install

To fix this, I would recommend three things:

* https://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/how_to_upgrade_packages/ should be updated as I've described, explaining to the user about the need to define PKG_PATH before they run pkg_add.

* This config step should also be documented clearly near the top of the man page for pkg_add.

* NetBSD should include an example /etc/pkg_install with several of the top NetBSD mirrors pre-configured as PKG_PATH's so all the user has to do is uncomment the one nearest to them to get pkg_add to work.
>How-To-Repeat:
Try to install packages as a NetBSD newb without an experienced NetBSD user at hand.
>Fix:
See full description for what needs to change.

>Audit-Trail:
From: nia <nia@NetBSD.org>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: pkg/56656: Improve documentation for pkg_add configuration
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:12:36 +0000

 On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:00:00AM +0000, allcoms@gmail.com wrote:
 > As a Linux user of 25+ years now, my first instinct after installing NetBSD was to try to update it as you would as if doing an apt/yum upgrade. I was later informed on IRC that NetBSD doesn't do interim security or bug fix releases of packages. This is kinda unrelated but its the back story and this could do well to be mentioned on:

 This is not really the case.
 Allow me to explain ;)

 - Releases constitute the core OS. They are cut from a "stable branch"
   which receives regular updates. You upgrade to a new release (or
   update to regular snapshots of the stable branch) by running the
   NetBSD installer, or sysupgrade.

 - Packages constitute third-party software installed on top of the OS.
   These are updated with `pkgin`, and are built from "pkgsrc quarterly
   releases" which are made every 3 months (give or take delays because
   we managed to break things).

 > https://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/how_to_upgrade_packages/

 I've worked on a lot of pkgsrc documentation and didn't know
 about this wiki article. I think it should be deleted and replaced
 with a redirect to the pkgsrc guide, which is a more fitting location
 for this information (and indeed, tells you how to set up pkgin).

 The information required on how to get a working pkgin is
 also one of the first things on pkgsrc.org.

From: nia <nia@NetBSD.org>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: pkg/56656: Improve documentation for pkg_add configuration
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 13:25:59 +0000

 On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:15:01AM +0000, nia wrote:
 >  On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:00:00AM +0000, allcoms@gmail.com wrote:
 >  > As a Linux user of 25+ years now, my first instinct after installing NetBSD was to try to update it as you would as if doing an apt/yum upgrade. I was later informed on IRC that NetBSD doesn't do interim security or bug fix releases of packages. This is kinda unrelated but its the back story and this could do well to be mentioned on:
 >  
 >  This is not really the case.
 >  Allow me to explain ;)
 >  
 >  - Releases constitute the core OS. They are cut from a "stable branch"
 >    which receives regular updates. You upgrade to a new release (or
 >    update to regular snapshots of the stable branch) by running the
 >    NetBSD installer, or sysupgrade.
 >  
 >  - Packages constitute third-party software installed on top of the OS.
 >    These are updated with `pkgin`, and are built from "pkgsrc quarterly
 >    releases" which are made every 3 months (give or take delays because
 >    we managed to break things).
 >  
 >  > https://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/how_to_upgrade_packages/
 >  
 >  I've worked on a lot of pkgsrc documentation and didn't know
 >  about this wiki article. I think it should be deleted and replaced
 >  with a redirect to the pkgsrc guide, which is a more fitting location
 >  for this information (and indeed, tells you how to set up pkgin).
 >  
 >  The information required on how to get a working pkgin is
 >  also one of the first things on pkgsrc.org.
 >  

 I have updated the wiki page. Let me know what you think.

From: Dan MacDonald <allcoms@gmail.com>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc: pkg-manager@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org, pkgsrc-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: pkg/56656: Improve documentation for pkg_add configuration
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 13:47:26 +0000

 Thats better thanks.

 I still think the pkg_add man page needs to updated to cover this or
 at least point toward the pkgsrc docs to get it configured.


 On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 1:30 PM nia <nia@netbsd.org> wrote:
 >
 > The following reply was made to PR pkg/56656; it has been noted by GNATS.
 >
 > From: nia <nia@NetBSD.org>
 > To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
 > Cc:
 > Subject: Re: pkg/56656: Improve documentation for pkg_add configuration
 > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 13:25:59 +0000
 >
 >  On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:15:01AM +0000, nia wrote:
 >  >  On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:00:00AM +0000, allcoms@gmail.com wrote:
 >  >  > As a Linux user of 25+ years now, my first instinct after installin=
 g NetBSD was to try to update it as you would as if doing an apt/yum upgrad=
 e. I was later informed on IRC that NetBSD doesn't do interim security or b=
 ug fix releases of packages. This is kinda unrelated but its the back story=
  and this could do well to be mentioned on:
 >  >
 >  >  This is not really the case.
 >  >  Allow me to explain ;)
 >  >
 >  >  - Releases constitute the core OS. They are cut from a "stable branch=
 "
 >  >    which receives regular updates. You upgrade to a new release (or
 >  >    update to regular snapshots of the stable branch) by running the
 >  >    NetBSD installer, or sysupgrade.
 >  >
 >  >  - Packages constitute third-party software installed on top of the OS=
 .
 >  >    These are updated with `pkgin`, and are built from "pkgsrc quarterl=
 y
 >  >    releases" which are made every 3 months (give or take delays becaus=
 e
 >  >    we managed to break things).
 >  >
 >  >  > https://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/how_to_upgrade_packages/
 >  >
 >  >  I've worked on a lot of pkgsrc documentation and didn't know
 >  >  about this wiki article. I think it should be deleted and replaced
 >  >  with a redirect to the pkgsrc guide, which is a more fitting location
 >  >  for this information (and indeed, tells you how to set up pkgin).
 >  >
 >  >  The information required on how to get a working pkgin is
 >  >  also one of the first things on pkgsrc.org.
 >  >
 >
 >  I have updated the wiki page. Let me know what you think.
 >

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