NetBSD Problem Report #48326

From cherry@cgm1.xenoserver.net  Sun Oct 20 09:19:31 2013
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Date: 20 Oct 2013 08:11:26 -0000
From: cherry@NetBSD.org
Reply-To: cherry@NetBSD.org
To: gnats-bugs@gnats.NetBSD.org
Subject: 6.1.2 install process ambiguous. 
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>Number:         48326
>Category:       install
>Synopsis:       NetBSD install process is confusing for a new user.
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       high
>Responsible:    install-manager
>State:          open
>Class:          sw-bug
>Submitter-Id:   net
>Arrival-Date:   Sun Oct 20 09:20:00 +0000 2013
>Last-Modified:  Sun Oct 20 11:40:00 +0000 2013
>Originator:     cherry@NetBSD.org
>Release:        NetBSD 6.1.2
>Organization:
None/Self
>Description:
	While helping a potential new user , I followed the install procedure
	by following instructions starting from http://www.NetBSD.org/
	The "Download NetBSD 6.1.2" under the "Get NetBSD" heading takes one
	to http://www.netbsd.org/releases/index.html#formal
	At this point under the heading: "Downloading NetBSD 6.1.2", there are
	two options.
	I chose the second option "Download NetBSD 6.1.2 via FTP or HTTP", since
	I didn't want to commit to an iso at this point.
	This brought me to:
	ftp://ftp2.jp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.2/amd64/installation/
	as a url of interest.
	The contents of this page are:

	cdrom/		28/09/2013 09:24:00
	floppy/		28/09/2013 09:24:00
	miniroot/		28/09/2013 09:24:00
	misc/		28/09/2013 09:24:00

	At this point I decided to install via 'cdrom', so I clicked on cdrom.
	This brought me to a directory with the following contents.

	MD5	104 B	28/09/2013 09:24:00
	SHA512	302 B	28/09/2013 09:24:00
	boot-com.iso	46.8 MB	28/09/2013 09:24:00
	boot.iso	46.8 MB	28/09/2013 09:24:00

	Since there is no documentation, I made an educated guess that
	boot-com.iso is a bootable cd image with a serial console, and
	boot.iso one with a regular BIOS console.

	So I chose the latter. Booting from this image led me to an install boot
	which could not install from CD, since '/' was mounted from /dev/cd0a

	This is confusing and broken, not just for a new user, and not least after
	committing to download hundreds of megabytes of data, which is not without
	cost in some parts of the world.
>How-To-Repeat:

>Fix:
	Please make the documentation on the website more friendly and less ambiguous
	to new users. Clear step-by-step instructions to new users on how to obtain and
	try out the latest stable version of the OS is essential to getting new 
	people to sample NetBSD. The current documentation flow assumes people already
	know where to get NetBSD and how to install it.

>Audit-Trail:
From: Izumi Tsutsui <tsutsui@ceres.dti.ne.jp>
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: tsutsui@ceres.dti.ne.jp
Subject: Re: install/48326: 6.1.2 install process ambiguous. 
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:44:40 +0900

 > 	Please make the documentation on the website more friendly and less ambiguous

 Is it enough to add links to install notes from formal release pages?
 http://ftp.NetBSD.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.2/i386/INSTALL.html#Quick%20install%20notes%20for%20the%20impatient

 ---
 Izumi Tsutsui

From: Cherry G. Mathew <cherry@zyx.in>
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: install-manager@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org, netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org
Subject: Re: install/48326: 6.1.2 install process ambiguous.
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 16:27:29 +0530

 >>>>> "Izumi" == Izumi Tsutsui <tsutsui@ceres.dti.ne.jp> writes:

     Izumi> The following reply was made to PR install/48326; it has been
     Izumi> noted by GNATS.  From: Izumi Tsutsui
     Izumi> <tsutsui@ceres.dti.ne.jp> To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org Cc:
     Izumi> tsutsui@ceres.dti.ne.jp Subject: Re: install/48326: 6.1.2
     Izumi> install process ambiguous.  Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:44:40
     Izumi> +0900

     >> Please make the documentation on the website more friendly and
     >> less ambiguous

     Izumi>  Is it enough to add links to install notes from formal
     Izumi> release pages?
     Izumi> http://ftp.NetBSD.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.2/i386/INSTALL.html#Quick%20install%20notes%20for%20the%20impatient

 IMHO that will be even more confusing... Either have a simple README.txt
 in
 ftp://ftp2.jp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.2/amd64/installation/cdrom/
 explaining what the respective files are, 

 OR 

 remove one of the two links under:
 http://www.netbsd.org/releases/index.html#formal
 heading: "Downloading NetBSD 6.1.2" so that the user doesn't have to
 chose between unknowns, 

 OR

 remove the cdrom/ directory from
 ftp://ftp2.jp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.2/amd64/installation/
 and provide it with a separate browse path from www so that one gets to
 the right install medium.

 Those are my retrospective thoughts.

 Many Thanks!
 -- 
 Cherry

From: Martin Husemann <martin@duskware.de>
To: "Cherry G. Mathew" <cherry@zyx.in>
Cc: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Subject: Re: install/48326: 6.1.2 install process ambiguous.
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:26:44 +0200

 I think we should have a general structure like this (as seen from the
 web page user)

  - download NetBSD x.x.x.
       -> page offering all archtitextures with short explanations
            -> page offering all media for the selected architecture
               with explanations
 	      (there could be links to -current/daily for this architecture
 	       here too)
                    -> individual links to images in the existing ftp
 		      structure

 Next step would be to add more short READMEs to the various directories
 generated on the ftp server that mostly point back into one of the
 above exlanation pages (or are an "inline" text only version of the
 same).


 Martin

From: Izumi Tsutsui <tsutsui@ceres.dti.ne.jp>
To: gnats-bugs@NetBSD.org
Cc: cherry@NetBSD.org, tsutsui@ceres.dti.ne.jp
Subject: Re: install/48326: 6.1.2 install process ambiguous.
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:36:29 +0900

 >      Izumi>  Is it enough to add links to install notes from formal
 >      Izumi> release pages?
 >      Izumi> http://ftp.NetBSD.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.2/i386/INSTALL.html#Quick%20install%20notes%20for%20the%20impatient
 >  
 >  IMHO that will be even more confusing...

 Do you read the install notes?  It describes everything you confused:

 >> Fetch files needed to install NetBSD.
 >> 
 >> Option 1: bootable CD-ROM images or USB memstick images containing
 >> the full distribution.
 >> 
 >> These can be found on an FTP site near you, usually located in the
 >> /pub/NetBSD/iso/ directory. Check the list of NetBSD mirrors at
 >> http://www.NetBSD.org/mirrors for details.
 >> 
 >> Option 2: bootable CD-ROM images from i386/installation/cdrom/.
 >> 
 >> These images are bootable, but do not contain binary sets.
 >> They are intended for network installs or system repair.
 >> boot.iso is for VGA console installation, and boot-com.iso
 >> is for installation over serial console (com0, 9600 baud).

 I'm afraid we don't have enough man power to reorganize
 directory (and src/distrib) structures of release binaries
 for users who won't read proper documents..

 ---
 Izumi Tsutsui

>Unformatted:
 Architecture: amd64
 Machine: amd64 

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